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Subject: мучительное gen. Hi there!Does "мучительное" mean "agonized" here (like Stoyan doesn't like doing it) or "annoying" (like the words are bothering the narrator (Peretz, for those who know the source)? "А теперь лес видел все это и слышал все это: похотливое сальце, облившее Тузиковы глаза, багровую физиономию Квентина, мотающуюся в дверях вездехода, какую-то тупую, бычью, и мучительное бормотание Стояна -- что-то о работе, об ответственности, о глупости, -- и треск отлетающих пуговиц о ветровое стекло... И неизвестно, что думал обо всем этом, ужасался ли, насмехался ли или брезгливо морщился." Thanks! |
| бормотание was мучительное to the woods, apparently |
| вроде второе, но может и первое. оба сразу )) |
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Здравствуйте! Why don't you say "plaintive"? (The point of view is blurred here; it seems to be that of the woods. This blurring is a common post-modernist gimmick.) |
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Imho: It is being "seen" through Peretz's eyes and ears - all these qualifiers (похотливый, тупой. бычий, мучительный) are put into words for us by him, for the Forest has no terminology of itself - it simply "observes" ALL THIS (perhaps with repulsion, as Peterz imagines it). So Stoyan's mumbling is also perceived by the narrator - "harrowing" perhaps? You should think of the fact that Stoyan is, generally speaking, a "better guy" then the other two, and that he is being stressed and almost somewhat deranged at this point. Hope this helps. |
| *than the other two |
| + Stoyan is "замученный" (he's torturing himself?) so his behavior is that of a man in distress; it does not directly affect either the narrator or the Forest - the former just describes it (to himself and to the reader) whilst the latter simply observes it, passively and perhaps indifferently . |
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harrowing ближе. "мучительное бормотание" означает, что человек пытается говорить о мучающих его вещах, но ему трудно это проговаривать - вылетают отдельные слова и фразы из тех, что давно копились внутри, но окружающим его речь кажется довольно бессвязной, потому что он, скорее, разговаривает сам с собой, чем с окружающими, да и не говорит, а бормочет себе под нос. |
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link 20.07.2017 8:14 |
| ИМХО, тут "мучительное" ближе по смыслу к "вымученное", "страдальческое". Распространенный метафорический прием у поэтически мыслящих авторов: когда ни одно слово на 100% точно не подходит, взять не совсем точное, но подобное ему по звучанию и как бы смешать их смыслы, как краски на палитре. |
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square_25, I think мучительное бормотание here has both of those meanings Maybe "disturbing"? |
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Thank you! "Plaintive" doesn't quite seem right here -- it just means "sad," often in the context of communicating that sadness to others. The dictionary gives the following usage: "We could hear the plaintive cry of a wounded animal in the woods." which is about right. "Harrowing" goes more with the "unpleasant to observe" meaning, but it seems too strong -- that would imply the forest would be extremely upset to hear the muttering, which doesn't seem right. I wonder if something like "agonized and agonizing muttering" would work well as a sort of echoing phrase? |
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link 21.07.2017 19:38 |
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20.07.2017 11:14+++ strained, labored |
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Здравствуйте! I'm translating Samuel Beckett's short plays into Russian - oh the sacrifices I had to make hoping I will convey the overall idea of the text.:) (I'm doing this only for self-improvement.) Remember what I said about your Russian text bowing to postmodernism, the 'forest' viewpoint and so forth. Sometimes I think those writers did it on purpose, to confuse people who would try to decipher their "work", like translators. Choose something and it will be right. |
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I don't think the Forest can be either upset or annoyed, or pleased for that matter... The whole idea is that we (the narrator) have no idea what the Forest "thinks" or "feels" or even if it is capable of anything like this. It is simply there, always present and omnipresent, and whilst Peretz is suspecting that it does SOMETHING, he has no idea - what. I feel that "agonized" is not quite right, But I do not know how to render мучительный in this case. But then I am not the one who's translating. Thank God. :) |
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слово "troublesome" не подойдет? по аналогии с выражением troublesome cough =) |
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