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Subject: withdrawal forces Здравствуйте! подскажите, пожалуйста, как во 2 предложении лучше перевести, что это за сила " the withdrawal forces the bristles are capable" ? И может, там предлог of пропущен? the withdrawal forces of the bristles ? Спасибо. ( A toothbrush handle)A toothbrush handle as disclosed above may be used in a method of manufacturing a toothbrush, the method comprising providing a toothbrush handle and attaching bristles to the bristle support portion by providing a plurality of bristles in groups and attaching respective group of bristles to the bristle support portion by folding the bristles of a group over an anchor element and inserting the anchor element and folded bristles of the group into a recess among a plurality of recesses in the bristle support portion. By using anchor elements, the withdrawal forces the bristles are capable to withstand from being withdrawn from the bristle support portion will be increased. The use of anchor elements is especially useful in cases the flexural modulus is close to the lower limits |
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имхо, the withdrawal forces (which) the bristles are capable to withstand |
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* может, там предлог of пропущен? * Нет, это ведь силы, которые прилагаются к щетинкам и пытаются их выдернуть, а не некие силы, являющиеся признаком самих щетинок. Там подразумевается that, которое можно опустить. Вряд ли which, ведь тогда всё последующее можно было бы считать как бы опциональным (ну, это если подходить строго |
| отсоединяющие силы ? |
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"Вряд ли which," сказывается отсутствие лингв. образования, увы ))) |
leka11, я уж позабыл всё, что не знал  Это не оно, не?.. The battle over whether to use which or that is one many people struggle to get right. It's a popular grammar question and most folks want a quick rule of thumb so they can get it right. ... If the sentence doesn't need the clause that the word in question is connecting, use which . If it does, use that. |
| я понимаю это так- ...сила, с которой щетинки противостоят выдергиванию из основания для щетинок, будет возрастать. Но для самого словосочетания withdrawal forces не могу подобрать перевод(( |
| Rus_Land, это же я про себя))) |
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* Rus_Land , это же я про себя))) * Дык вот и я про себя... Вот и встретились два одиночества... |
| ...усилие, которое необходимо приложить, чтобы выдернуть щетинку из[/отделить от] основания, увеличивается. |
| ...устойчивость щетинок к силам, действующим на отрыв, увеличивается. |
| ИМХО - здесь лучше переводить - как повышается прочность сцепления щетинок с основой |
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Благодаря использованию якорных устройств (лол) щетинки способны более эффективно противостоять отрыву от основания. Лол. Че только люди не переводят |
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* Че только люди не переводят * Факт... Чё только не переводят, кто только не переводит и, главное, нафига только не переводят... Формула успеха -- think big: берёшь какие-то ничтожные, занюханые, затрах...тасканные "элементы", трансформируешь (во! это ж пе-ре-вод-чес-кая транс-фор-ма-ция, не хухры-мухры какие-нибудь!) в настоящие, полновесные, полнокровные, матёрые "устройства", и вуаля! -- вот она, магия перевода: бесцветный, безвкусный, бестолковый текст о безыскусных щетинках, написанный в далёкой Поднебесной неизвестным сыном безродного кули и кухарки на незнакомом, но тем более ненавидимом им языке, заблестел, заискрился, заиграл заливистыми переливами красок и смыслов, и уже щетинки -- не просто щетинки, тупо и безропотно сопротивляющиеся отрыву, а умелые, бесстрашные, непобедимые бойцы, аки стойкие оловянные солдатики эф-фек-тив-но (куды ж сегодня без этой вокабулы!) и эффектно про-ти-во-сто-я-щие (!) вихрям враждебным, зубам драконовым, отодрать их пытающимся от земли-матушки... |
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link 10.12.2020 15:36 |
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That sentence is written in imperfect (8/10) English: 'By using anchor elements, the withdrawal forces the bristles are capable to withstand from being withdrawn from the bristle support portion will be increased' should read: 'By using anchor elements, the withdrawal forces which the bristles are capable of withstanding from being withdrawn from the bristle support portion, [add a comma] will be increased.' * 'forces' here is a plural noun, not a verb. * In English you have to say 'capable of .......ing', not 'capable to ........'. Also, * 'as disclosed above' may be a mistake for 'as described above'. * The meaning of 'attaching respective group' isn't clear. It should either read 'attaching the respective group', or 'respective' is the wrong word here. |
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* the withdrawal forces which the bristles are capable * leka11, вот видите, там всё-таки which... I've tried to restrict a non-restrictive clause, but the clause has gloriously broken free... Двоечник двурушный, дай уж дуба, скушный... |
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'By using anchor elements, the withdrawal forces which the bristles are capable of withstanding from being withdrawn from the bristle support portion. Here either word may be used - which or could. It makes no difference which one you use. The clause in point is restrictive rather than non-restrictive. But if it were non-restrictive we would have to use "which". |
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ну вот хотела вставить смайлик - ничего не вышло((( :))) |
Rus_Land , третья попытка со смайликом)) 
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leka11, 
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link 10.12.2020 22:30 |
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hsakira1: ** Here either word may be used - which or could. It makes no difference which one you use. ** You can't use the word 'could' in place of the word 'which' in my (and leka11's) suggestion (shown above), as the sentence wouldn't then make sense. Where exactly would you put the word 'could'? |
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'By using anchor elements, the withdrawal forces which the bristles are capable of withstanding from being withdrawn from the bristle support portion will be increased. Sorry, it's my fault. I meant to say this: Here either word may be used - which or that!!!. It makes no difference which one you use in the sentence above. The clause in point is restrictive rather than non-restrictive. But if it were non-restrictive we would have to use only "which" and not "that". Since the clause is restrictive, we can use either word. Both are correct. |
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link 11.12.2020 16:53 |
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hsakira1: Yes, you can use 'that' instead of 'which' in the asker's example. 'that' is also commonly used in place of 'whom', especially in less formal/less technical/non-legal texts, as in: * 'the man whom I know' (mainly more formal texts) or 'the man that I know' or just 'the man I know'. My English teachers at school (in the 1960s-1970s) would have said that using 'that' in place of 'which' or 'whom' was wrong, but it's now very common, especially in less formal texts. |
| Текст явно стёбный. (Я видел подобрый о бельевой прищепке.) Я б особо не заморачивался. |
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johnstephenson, Thanks for the info. It's been a great help, and not only for me but also for others in this chat forum. I presume you speak Russian? |
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link 11.12.2020 17:58 |
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hsakira1: You're welcome. I've a degree in Russian and can make myself understood in spoken Russian, but I don't consider myself very good at writing in or translating into Russian. This is because I've only ever worked as a Ru-En translator -- not as an En-Ru one. I leave the translation into Ru to others with native Russian, as they can do it much better than me. |
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they can do it much better than me - John, they might well, but trouble is they sometimes fail to understand the English source at all or correctly (Witness this forum). It the other half of the trade folks tend to forget (or downplay). :-) A good example is the description of the "red officer" in Bunin's Cursed Days. |
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Incorrect: //but trouble is they sometimes fail to understand ...// Correct: but the trouble is that they sometimes fail to understand... |
| Tenk ya teecha. :-) |
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johnstephenson, Without a doubt, as a native English speaker and Ru-Eng translator, you are a perfect fit for this forum. And it may be a great learning experience both ways. |
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The forces that try to withdraw us From God are so strong, but allow us To withstand sins, and pray To avoid goin' astray, Not being a despicable louse...
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| /// but the trouble is//// That must be British. We say "the problem is". Trouble has different meaning. |
Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you 
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| Or, as they would say in the U.S., don't problem problem until problem problems you |
| You are problemmakers. |
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Amor 71 +1 Я тоже так думаю(-ла). Успехов! |
| Пасиб. |
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link 14.12.2020 16:52 |
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In the UK you can say either 'the trouble is (that) ....' or 'the problem is (that) ....'. Sadly our American friends have never properly learnt the beautiful language we gave them.... |
| That's troubling, should I say "probleming". |
the/this problem is troubling  the US |
the UK
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link 14.12.2020 18:43 |
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Ha! "America and Britain -- two nations divided by a common language" -- famous quote by George Bernard Shaw, Churchill and others. |
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