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 Helga28

link 8.11.2005 11:43 
Subject: I had rather
Прошу напомнить правило, когда используется в англ. яз структура "я хочу, чтобы кто-то сделал что-то" и используются фраза I had rather ...
т.е. как построить I had rather you didn't (или hadn't) smoke (или smoked) in here?

 Йист

link 8.11.2005 11:47 
Без лишних заморочек, это звучит так - Лучше бы вы здесь не курили...

 Renaissance

link 8.11.2005 11:50 
The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

1. Grammar: Traditional Rules, Word Order, Agreement, and Case

§ 54. rather
would rather / should rather. Which would you rather do—play professional baseball or sell used cars? In expressions of preference rather is commonly preceded by would: We would rather go to the lake than stay in town for the weekend. In formal style, you sometimes see should instead of would: I should rather my daughter attended a private school.
1
had rather. Sometimes had appears in these constructions, though this use of had seems to be growing less frequent: I had rather work with Williams than work for him. Language critics once condemned this use of had as a mistake. In truth the mistake was their own. They misunderstood sentences such as I’d rather stay, thinking the contraction was of would. But the contraction is a survival of the subjunctive form had that also appears in constructions like had better and had best, as in We had better leave now. This use of had goes back to Middle English and is perfectly acceptable.
2
rather a. Before an unmodified noun only rather a is used: It was rather a disaster. When the noun is preceded by an adjective, however, both rather a and a rather are found: It was rather a boring party. It was a rather boring party. When a rather is used in this construction, rather qualifies only the adjective, whereas with rather a it qualifies either the adjective or the entire noun phrase. Thus a rather long ordeal can mean only “an ordeal that is rather long,” whereas rather a long ordeal can also mean roughly “a long process that is something of an ordeal.” Rather a is the only possible choice when the adjective itself does not permit modification. Thus we say The horse was rather a long shot but not The horse was a rather long shot.

 Annaa

link 8.11.2005 11:52 
I'd rather you didn't smoke.
И там все же не had, а would

 Miff

link 8.11.2005 12:14 
Дело в том, что would rather употребляется, когда действие еще не совершилось, типа, я хотел бы, чтобы... А had rather = я хотел бы не (но все же приходится).

 Miff

link 8.11.2005 12:17 
Например: I would rather not have you smoke in here vs. I had rather not have allowed him to smoke in the office.

 Translucid Mushroom

link 8.11.2005 12:35 
I WOULD rather stay poor (Chase) :)

 Annaa

link 8.11.2005 12:39 
Я понимаю, что had там тоже acceptible, но вот мой Лонгман его не упоминает. И ни в одной грамматике печатной я его тоже не встречала. И результаты гугления хоть и дают для had rather 700 тыс., но для would rather результатов 14 миллионов. Причем, для had rather много цитат (Кромвель, Шекспир, псалмы) и не всегда rather является частью этого сочетания (I had rather an interesting case the other day).
Там вот у Renaissance ведь написано, что this use of had seems to be growing less frequent. Так оно и есть.
А вот разницы в значении нет. Поскольку есть суть одно и то же.

 Annaa

link 8.11.2005 12:43 
Более того. Had настолько там неупотребимо, что часто во всяких multiple choice тестах надо выбрать ЕДИНСТВЕННЫЙ правильный вариант, и выбор дается между had и would (ну и еще пару словечек для доведения числа вариантов до 4).

 Miff

link 8.11.2005 13:11 
Вай нот? Я и сам всегда would'ом пользуюсь. Потому что описанное различие не очень актуально в наше время. Просто пережиток старого образа мышления, как, например, глагол will, который в староанглийском имел жестко закрепленное смысловое значение воления.

 

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