responsibility vs. ответственность

[Natasha_777]

Выношу этот вопрос из другой ветки о предложении работы.
Мне кажется некорректным переводить "ответственность" как качество личности ("дисциплинированность", "умение отвечать за свои поступки") английским "responsibility".
Наиболее близки по значению reliability, а если в контексте требований на работе - discipline.
Вот еще: мультитран выдает answerableness, но от этого меня как-то слегка корежит :)

Какие есть мнения?

[Скай]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/responsibility
responsibility
1 : the quality or state of being responsible : as a : moral, legal, or mental accountability b : RELIABILITY, TRUSTWORTHINESS

[kinsman]

+ dependability

[d.]

responsible attitude

[Nina79]

the person is responsible (and this means that they are reliable and that you can trust them and depend on them)

on another "branch" you asked about it in legal terms: i believe in legal temrs it is liability

[Natasha_777]

ОК. Всем спасибо. Буду знать. Просто никогда не слышала что-нить вроде "he is such a responsible person".

[Nina79]

on togda
takoi otvetsvenni chelovek/ochen otvetsvenni chelovek depending on your context

[Nina79]

Вот еще: мультитран выдает answerableness, но от этого меня как-то слегка корежит :)

is completely wrong

[Nina79]

дисциплинированность = he is a disciplined person
"умение отвечать за свои поступки" = he takes responsibility for his actions

[Shumov]

Nina79: "is completely wrong"

answerableness noun

1. arch. correcpondancy, conformity;
2. = ANSWERABILITY

(OED)

The fact that one doesn't know a particular word doesn't always mean that there's no such word, but rather highlights the limitations of one's vocabulary.

[Shumov]

correspondency

[Natasha_777]

Шумов, я сейчас вместо Нины попробую ответить, а заодно и объяснить, почему мне это ансверабилити ухо режет:
- ANSWERABILITY = ANSWERABLENESS - это что-то вроде "отвечай за базар", а не моральная готовность САМОГО человека отвечать за поступки.
Еще видела ANSWERABILITY = ANSWERABLENESS в философских контекстах, но и там они ближе по смыслу к ОБЯЗАННОСТИ, а не ОСОЗНАНИЮ самим человеком необходимости отвечать за содеянное :)
Вот такое может быть объяснение.

[Nina79]

Shumov
"The fact that one doesn't know a particular word doesn't always mean that there's no such word, but rather highlights the limitations of one's vocabulary."
why do you assume i said it was wrong becasue i dont know it? i know the word, i meant that it is completely wrong in this context (the context of people and qualities)
get a grip man

[Nina79]

shumov
The fact that one jumps to erroneous conclusions only serves highlight his lack of patience and willingness to fully think through his thoughts and actions.

oh, aren't we just both so buddhist today! :)

[Franky]

"The fact that one doesn't know a particular word doesn't always mean that there's no such word, but rather highlights the limitations of one's vocabulary."

+1

:-))))

[solidrain]

Off:

I am a very responsible person. Every time something goes wrong I am resposible.

(c) heard this joke from an old American many years ago.

[Nina79]

Franky

-1 rather as his accusation was wrong

solidrain
heheheheh... my grandfather said that to me once :)

[Franky]

Это просто жизненное наблюдение... Ну захотелось человеку им здесь поделиться, и что с того?

:-)))

[Natasha_777]

Фрэнки, а по существу вопроса слабо сказать? Комментировать всегда легче, чем своей извилиной пошевелить.

[Franky]

Наталья, зачем грубить?
С другой стороны, я на Вас не в обиде, ведь Вам тоже удалось привнести толику жизненной мудрости в интеллектуальное, так сказать, наполнение собственной ветки (я имею в виду Ваше "Комментировать всегда легче, чем своей извилиной пошевелить.")

:-))

[Shumov]

Natasha_777

ANSWERABLENESS = ANSWERABILITY etc.,

то, что Вам встречалось в философских контекстах переводится скорее всего как "соответствие". Моральная готовность - скорее всего maturity. Responsibility как личное качество - ответственность, в смысле близком к "сознательности". Аnswerableness дано в МТ без привязки к какому-либо контексту, и это не только "ответственность за свои поступки, слова и т.д., при описании личных качеств это слово может быть употреблено именно в значении "соответствие" (занимаемой должности, скажем)

Nina79,
I do not assume. I listen, read, and conclude. I commented not on what you "meant" but on what you said.

You would do me a favor by dropping the 'get a grip man' tone. Thank you.

[Nina79]

Shumov
and if you had concluded properly (after just a bit more thought) you may have come to the conclusion that what i meant was that it is wrong in this context and then, in the end, made a much more appropriate comment. :)

hope you have your grip now

[Natasha_777]

Шумов, я еще посмотрю и потом отвечу. Не умещается у меня answerableness как ответственность, и все тут.

Фрэнки,
Наличие извилины - это, такскзть, комплимент. А от Вас я ответов по сабжу на форуме почти и не видела.

[Althea]

2Natasha_777
Для начала - Вы некорректно вопрос ставите.
Вам кажется ***некорректным переводить "ответственность" как качество личности ("дисциплинированность", "умение отвечать за свои поступки") английским "responsibility". Наиболее близки по значению reliability, а если в контексте требований на работе - discipline.***

Так вот - это все в пределах одного контекста. Достаточно узко. Общего правила перевода "ответственность как качество личности" одним отдельно взятым словом в английском нет и быть не может. Послушайте Shumovа. Дело говорит (с)V

Может оказаться answerable, acountable, dependable, infallable, trustworthy - obliging даже. Подумайте о смысле языковых синономических рядов.

И вообше, "добрее надо быть" (с)

[Kirk]

Natasha, you might say someone is "answerable" when there is a clear problem and you want to find out who has caused it. The vice president of sales is answerable for all mistakes of shipping and labling, for example. But it is not a word you will see very often, even in this context, and "responsible" is the more likely word.

If there is a person whom you can always count on, they are considered "reliable". I think "responsible" is very often used to mean the same thing. It means she accepts responsibility and discharges her duties well, usually with celerity and often with alacrity as well.

[Natasha_777]

Kirk, thank you.
Are you a native speaker?

[Corvin]

2 Kirk
"The vice president of sales is answerable for all mistakes of shipping and labling, for example. But it is not a word you will see very often, even in this context, and "responsible" is the more likely word".

I was pretty sure that "liable" is just the word to say when someone is at fault.

[AnnaB]

Cambridge Dictionary:

responsible (BLAME)
be responsible for sth/doing sth - to be the person who caused something to happen, especially something bad:
Who is responsible for this terrible mess?
Last month's bad weather was responsible for the crop failure.

responsible (GOOD JUDGMENT)
1 having good judgment and the ability to act correctly and make decisions on your own:
a hardworking and responsible employee
Let's stay calm and try to behave like responsible adults.
Many big companies are now becoming more responsible about the way they operate.
NOTE: The opposite is irresponsible.

2 A responsible job or position involves making important decisions or doing important things.

responsible (DUTY)
1 be responsible for sb/sth/doing sth - to have control and authority over something or someone and the duty of taking care of it or them:
Paul is directly responsible for the efficient running of the office.
Her department is responsible for overseeing the councils.

2 be responsible to sb/sth - to be controlled by someone or something:
In Australia, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet of Ministers are responsible to the House of Representatives.

[Althea]

2Natasha_777
***Are you a native speaker? *** :-)

"Носители разные бывают" (с)
"Учите матчасть" (с)

[Kirk]

To Natasha: Yes, I am a native speaker of English, university and law school educated, and a productive, responsible adult.

To Corvin, "liable" is a nice word but really implies legal responsibility to third parties. In a work context, it wouldn't be the case. The company is liable for the damage caused to customers, but I am answerable to my boss for the mistakes I make on the job. After all, he is ultimately responsible for making certain everything is OK.

Many criminals think they are anwerable only to God.

Finally, I think "responsibility" is a good word for what Natasha is looking for. I have always been a responsible employee: I come on time, I do my job as well as I can and I take the blame when I make mistakes, which is, fortunately, quite rare. I am always looking to get promoted to a job with increased responsibility.

[Natasha_777]

2Althea: а кому или чему тогда верить? :) Вот тема была долгая и нудная о морсе - мы же ведь и свой язык до конца не знаем, и даже справочники не эталон - везде как Бог на душу положит :)

Подводя итог, "responsible" может использоваться в моем контексте, а answerable - нет :)