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 Suppafly

link 15.02.2006 10:52 
Subject: which vs. that
после длинной распространенной фразы which вроде относится к последнему слову, а если поставить that, то ко всей фразе:
Response to teleregulation that has bad quality
that - ко всей фразе,т.е. к response
Т.о.: Ответ на телерегулирование, имеющИЙ плохое качество
Response to teleregulation which has bad quality
which - к teleregulation.
Т.о.: ответ на телерегулирование, имеющЕЕ плохое качество
Я прав или нет?

 tumanov

link 15.02.2006 11:04 
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/which.html

I must confess that I do not myself observe the distinction between “that” and “which.” Furthermore, there is little evidence that this distinction is or has ever been regularly made in past centuries by careful writers of English. However, a small but impassioned group of authorities has urged the distinction; so here is the information you will need to pacify them.

If you are defining something by distinguishing it from a larger class of which it is a member, use “that”: “I chose the lettuce that had the fewest wilted leaves.” When the general class is not being limited or defined in some way, then “which” is appropriate: “He made an iceberg Caesar salad, which didn’t taste quite right.” Note that “which” is normally preceded by a comma, but “that” is not.

Comments on this issue by Jack Lynch.

 Suppafly

link 15.02.2006 11:11 
Big THANX for the trouble!!!! %)

 Кэт

link 15.02.2006 12:13 
Если посмотреть грамматики (напр., старую добрую грамматику Гордон и Крыловой), то
which
1) может относиться к одуш. и неодуш. существительным
2) семантически selects one or more out of a definite number of persons or things
3) is often followed by an of-phrase (eg, which of your friends...)
4) sunject, predicative and object clauses can be introduced by conjunctive pronouns who(whom), whose, WHICH, how much and how many. THAT is no longer a oncjunctive pronoun when it introduces one of these clauses, but a mere conjunction (eg, That he is going to resign is no secret. I know that he is no fool).
5) can be preceded by a preposition ( eg, ...of which... ...about which...).

 Levitan

link 15.02.2006 12:42 
Which нельзя относить к одушевленным существительным (imo)

 Кэт

link 15.02.2006 14:40 
Вообще-то можно, см.

It is used of persons or things...

Eg, Which of the STUDENTS (=selective meaning) have answered all the questions correctly?
Which author are you more interested in? (=какой ИЗ авторов)
(Krylova, p.367)

 Levitan

link 15.02.2006 14:44 

Ok, I gotcha! I meant somehting else - eg. you cannot say "Attorney WHICH defended me....blah-blah".

 Кэт

link 16.02.2006 13:57 
I guess you can not say so, unless you imply some choice.

 Aiduza

link 16.02.2006 15:27 
mind you, don't drop a comma before 'which'!

 Кэт

link 21.02.2006 13:03 
Yes, thank you!

 gogolesque

link 21.02.2006 13:05 
the attorney WHO defended me (ie. the attorney who defended me in court was a complete moron and now i am in jail.) --- an attorney is alive

 

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