Посмотрите плиз, как тут с качеством английского? progr.

[Wlastas]

Нашел интересный двуязычный сайтик по программированию.
Не могли бы вы подсказать насчет качества английских текстов на нем.
Вот для примера пара абзацев:

This lesson will provide you with detailed information about Dagger and what it can do. We will discuss the notions of a component and module, connect Dagger to a project and look at a couple of simple examples.

What is Dagger for?
If you would like to decrease the inter-object dependency and simplify the procedure of developing tests for your code, the Dependency Injection is exactly what you want. Dagger, on the other hand, is a library that will help to implement the pattern. In this mini training course I will describe how to use the Dagger library version 2 (we will refer to it simply as Dagger).

The advantages of Dagger as opposed to the other libraries out there are as follows:
- it helps to generate code that is easy to understand and debug;
- it checks dependencies at compilation stage;
- it does not create any issues, when proguard is used.

I can tell you right away that this is quite a challenging topic, and questions like “and what would happen if I did this” are expected. Unfortunately, I cannot discuss all the possible cases, which is why I strongly recommend that you create examples and run tests on how different things work under different circumstances using those examples. In my experience, real-life examples have significantly helped me understand the theory better.

[Tiny Tony]

Добрый день!
На мой взгляд, текст переводился с русского носителем русского же, но очень старательно и аккуратно. Ошибок в лексике и грамматике нет, смысл понятен, но присутствует общее ощущение "по-английски так не говорят". Во всяком случае, я уверена, что носитель английского выбрал бы более лёгкий и неформальный стиль, без наших любимых придаточных предложений и нагромождений существительных в родительном падеже.

[crockodile]

качество английского тут безусловно имеет место быть.

[trtrtr]

Возможно, лучше было бы так (без артикля, в кавычках):
• We will discuss the notions of 'component' and 'module'

Немного смутила эта фраза - что имеется в виду?
• quite a challenging topic

Не лучше так (без артикля)?
• as opposed to other libraries out there

Может, коллеги не согласятся со мной, но меня эти моменты немного смутили.

[Wlastas]

Автор да - русскоговорящий, и статьи, похоже, изначально пишутся на русском.
Спс за ваш комментарий - я хотел использовать данный сайт как источник "аутентичных русско-английских" текстов, но, похоже, с этим опять ничего не получится ;-(

[trtrtr]

Посмотрите с этой целью сайты ООН и входящих в ООН организаций.

[muzungu]

С артиклями слабовато (to generate A code, at THE compilation stage...) А фраза what would happen if I did this ставит мой паровоз в грамматический тупик.

[интровверт]

\\\\ фраза what would happen if I did this ставит мой паровоз в грамматический тупик.

не должна

what would happen if I did this примерно= что будет если я сделаю то-то или то-то

[интровверт]

т.е. дословно "что бы случилось, если бы я сделал то-то", но переводить имхо можно как выше

[muzungu]

In plain English, it would be smth like 'what will happen if I do this'
If I did this - если бы это сделал я

[johnstephenson]

10/10 -- perfect. Written by a native-level speaker.

[Wlastas]

2 johnstephenson
хм, вот теперь и не знаю кому верить :-))

[juliedor]

"хм, вот теперь и не знаю кому верить :-))"
I woul say: to Mr. Johnstephenson as a matter of course.
A well-educated native speaker,
In my humble opinion as a matter of course

[johnstephenson]

Durrr....

[интровверт]

1. здесь запятая лишняя/избыточная/грамматически ошибочная: it does not create any issues, when proguard is used.
уже можно считать не 10/10

2. at compilation stage - калька с русского ("на стадии компиляции"). нейтивы пишут at/during compile time

3. create examples and run tests on how different things work under different circumstances using those examples - весь оборот калька с русского и недодуманная идея. предполагаю, что имелось в виду create examples with tests and run them to see how different things work under different circumstances.

[johnstephenson]

1. No, the comma is fine. It subtly changes the meaning of the 'when' that comes after it from the usual 'at the time that' to 'if'/'as long as'.

2. 'Compile time' isn't English at all (unless it's a set expression used by software designers), as 'compile' is a verb. The author's quite correctly used a verb-based noun -- 'compilation'. 'Stage' is also fine as it refers to one of several periods in a process. However, it should say 'THE compilation stage', as muzungu says.

3. 'create examples ......' etc: This, too, reads perfectly well. It's not калька at all, just very good English.

So that's one article missing out of four paragraphs which are otherwise perfect. What's Russian for 'nit-picking'...? :-)

[интровверт]

1. 'when' starts a restrictive clause in this case. no comma.
2. yes, it is a set expression in that domain. (just like its apparent source in russian, "на стадии компиляции")
3. this may read "perfectly well" to someone who is not going to act upon it. as soon as you try to follow it practically, you notice the lack of coherence

[Монги]

Уважаемый johnstephenson,

а не могли бы Вы более подробно разобрать согласование времен в приведенном ТС отрывке.

Было бы правда очень интересно узнать Ваше мнение.

[Монги]

и кстати:

"What's Russian for 'nit-picking'"

ИМХО, "крохоборствовать" вполне соответствует.

[asocialite]

для искренне интересующихся есть словарь ;)
http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&s=nit-picking

[Монги]

мне мой вариант больше нравится :)

[Wlastas]

Коль такая пьянка :-)
Исходный русский текст - возможно это внесёт некую ясность в качество перевода:
http://startandroid.ru/en/courses-en/dagger-2/18-courses/dagger-2/432-lesson-1-introduction.html

Зачем нужен Dagger
Если вы хотите снизить зависимость объектов друг от друга и упростить написание тестов для вашего кода, то вам подойдет паттерн Dependency Injection. А Dagger - это библиотека, которая поможет в реализации этого паттерна. В этом мини-курсе я опишу использование библиотеки Dagger версии 2 (далее по тексту даггер).

Плюсы даггера в сравнении с другими библиотеками:
- генерирует код несложный для понимания и отладки
- проверяет зависимости на этапе компиляции
- не создает проблем при использовании proguard

Сразу скажу, что тема нетривиальная и у вас могут возникать вопросы типа "а что будет, если сделать так?". Все случаи я рассмотреть не могу, поэтому очень рекомендую вам создавать примеры и на них проверять как все это работает в том или ином случае. Мне практика очень сильно помогла лучше понять теорию.

[johnstephenson]

интровверт:
2. I've now checked, and 'compile time' is a set expression used by software designers (see my comment) -- so that's fair enough.
1. & 3. No, I don't agree at all for the reasons I've given.

I think we'll just have to "agree to disagree" on 1. and 3., as otherwise we'll just end up repeating ourselves and go round in circles all day. However, I'm happy to reduce my mark to 9.5/10 because of the missed 'the' and the translator's non-use of 'compile time' -- assuming that's what the original says.

Update: The asker originally asked us only to judge the quality of the English used, but without showing us the Russian original -- so we were unable to judge it as a translation. He's now (10:03) provided us with the Russian, so this means we can now judge the accuracy of the translation as well. I wonder what it will reveal...?

[johnstephenson]

Монги: I'll get back to you just as soon as I've time.

[интровверт]

John, how good is in the next sentence English?
If you want to cross the Atlantic, you should walk to the nearest bank and eat the list of whiskeys that they have on tap.

should read perfectly well, must be worth 10/10 or just about. what do you say?

[crockodile]

не крохоборство, а блохоловство

[muzungu]

В своем первом посте я не совсем точно выразился. Дело не в грамматике, а в логике. Странно спрашивать себя "что было бы, если бы я сделал это?" Исходник на русском подтвердил мои сомнения. Можно сказать еще короче: What if I do this?

[johnstephenson]

интровверт: I sense a trap. Why do you ask?

[интровверт]

it's not a trap, it's a straightforward call for you to see an analogy -
between that made-up sentence in 18:35 and the #3 from 26.01.2017 4:23 (7:46, 8:02, 17:59, so on)
both of them "read perfectly well", don't they!

[johnstephenson]

PS: .... and as for your earlier comment that <<< 'when' starts a restrictive clause in this case>>>, that was purely guesswork on your part as at that stage neither of us could see the original Russian. It could be either restrictive/non-restrictive in that position, ie without or with a comma, depending on what the author has in mind. Both are perfectly good English, but convey subtly different meanings.

So I was commenting on the standard of English used, whereas you were guessing as to whether it was an accurate translation, but without being able to see the original. Now that we can see the original, we'll be able to comment on whether it's also an accurate translation -- if the asker wants us to.

[интровверт]

@ ... that was purely guesswork on your part ...
@ ... you were guessing as to whether it was an accurate translation ...

wrong, both times.

you are not me, you did not ask me, you cannot possibly know what it was on my part, YOU have to be guessing that - and in your guessing you choose to err on the unsafe side.

specifically:

1. i have plenty of relevant experience in the domain, and at very least it enables me to make educated guesses. did not know that? you probably did not. but why would you guess or assume the opposite?

2. both Dagger and proguard (mentioned in the original context) are proper names of software development tools, anyone can look those up and learn what they do. (anyone with a certain level of domain knowledge, that is.) did you know i looked them up and got the additional information? you probably did not. but why would you guess or assume the opposite?

3. i was not guessing whether it was an accurate translation, i did not care. i simply made an attempt to understand the meaning of the text presented - and pointed out its incoherences.

[johnstephenson]

Sorry, my posting crossed with yours. No doubt this will, too.

Well, I think it is a trap. And it isn't an analogy at all, because the two are very different. The English in your quotation is perfectly OK -- if it's by a surrealist author or someone describing coming off psychedelic drugs and THAT'S WHAT HE/SHE MEANT TO CONVEY. If it's not, the English is awful, of course.

We were simply asked: "как тут с качеством английского?", not "Is this an accurate translation?", because at that stage we couldn't see any of the Russian. The asker didn't post a link to it until three days later. So I judged it on the standard of English used; you've judged it on whether it's an accurate translation and insisted you're right, without even seeing the original.

Anyway, entertaining though this is, if you'll excuse me, I don't want to spend much more time discussing just a comma!

[интровверт]

@ I don't want to spend much more time discussing just a comma!

i am not sure why you argued in the first place! this was never about you. i simply offered my observations regarding the text presented in the original post: it's not written by a native and it's got problems, no matter where it came from. (now with the original available, it's just more clear what those problems are.)

[crockodile]

дискуссия о форме и содержании бэсконечна.
итого в представленном аскером фрагменте:
- качество английского ЕСТЬ
- смысла НЕТЬ

[Монги]

ahem...

Мой вопрос все еще актуален XD

[Wlastas]

Так и не понял из вашего возвышенного (ибо баз словаря - нифига не понятно) спора на английском, стоит ли использовать данный сайт в качестве аутентичных текстов, которые можно использовать в качестве изучения лексики, связанной с программированием.
Сайт то довольно интересный, обширный и содержит более 200 статей по интересующим меня вопросам.