muslim. Как правильно произносится?

[Natttaha]

Слышала три варианта произношения. Скажите, как правильно

[KN]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muslim

[NC1]

Правильно -- так, как говорит имам местной мечети. В одних странах говорят так, в других сяк. Вас же на удивляет, что то, что по-русски говорят "христианин", а по-английски -- "крисчен" (в Америке) или "кристиан" (в Англии). С исламом та же вода -- это мировая религия, и словарь ее разнится от места к месту...

[Faith*]

MUZ-lim and MOOZ-lim are probably the most common, its entirely up to you how you pronounce it. No muslim English preaker I've ever met insisted on any one variant. Actually it's not uncommon for one person to use more than one variant

[SirReal]

Heh, finally someone using the word variant the way it's supposed to! :)

But that double 'O' in MOOZ-lim is not right.

[Faith*]

SirReal,
you're lucky you don't have to teach phonics in an english school :-)

[SirReal]

I'm not sure what you're saying, but true enough, I consider myself lucky in that respect :)

[Faith*]

My point therefore is this:
The person asked for assistance, i gave them a method of learning used in the day-to-day teaching of English in a school for the English in England.
Surely the point of this forum is to HELP others grasp the day-to-day usage of the langauge. As opposed to slagging off those who try and HELP ;-)

[SirReal]

You are being helpful! I was just saying that the "oo" sound is not there. There is no double 'o'. I'm willing to write it off to transcription issues, but still, I'm not sure why you are taking it so personally.

[Faith*]

Steady mate, i wasn't using transcription, more like phonic spelling, just spelling it in such a way as to avoid ambiguity in pronunciation. You don't spell muslim with a Z either, so why pick up on the OO? As I said, surely the point of this forum is to help the asker as opposed to slag people off.

Nattaha: sorry to take this discussion way off track :-(

[mahavishnu]

Faith*, phonics is what I'm interested in. Do you teach phonics?
Also, you added "sleep in" as проспать. Is it a variant of to stay in bed late in the morning?
On the weekends, many people like to sleep in.
Josh chose to sleep in after staying up late the night before

[mahavishnu]

But why! We can discuss phonics issues here all right as long as we help English students.

[SirReal]

You know how this phonic system works and I do, but the asker doesn't. So to them it reads like a double 'o'. Did you think of that?

What you said about several options being accepted and used simultaneously is very accurate and is actually helpful information.

As regards this forum, it's meant for on topic discussions, and, believe it or not, I did not stray from the topic.

[mahavishnu]

Muslim - 
[ˈmʌzlɪm, ˈmʊz-, ˈmʊs-] - IPA Pronunciation
[muhz-lim, mooz-, moos-] - Spelled Pronunciation

[Faith*]

mahavishnu: with respect to sleeping in, yes you got it right however it's a colloquialism and it's probably not the best idea to teach that to your students. Oversleep would probably be the proper word. But the thing about common usage is, some proper words don't get used at all, for example you might hear an English person say, 'i think i'll sleep in tomorrow', or 'i think i'll have a good sleep in tomorrow' - i.e. get up later than usual and maybe go to work late or something. You wouldn't hear them say 'I think i'll oversleep tomorrow'. Oversleep is probably the word you'd use only AFTER being late for something.
Another colloquial (cockney) phrase would be 'to kip/to have a kip' - 'I had a great kip this morning', but again be careful not to mix this in with Queen's English ;-)

with respect to phonics, i'm probably not the best person to ask at this stage, i'm only at the early stages of training to teach it on-the-job. I do work in a school and I do occasionally do phonics sessions but there's a lot I don't know yet. If you're interested in online resources on phonics, i'd probably be able to help.

SirReal: sorry if i was a bit harsh on you, but transcription symbols aren't commonly used in the UK - no one would know what they stand for. And just using the alphabet, there really is no other way of spelling an [u] so it doesn't get confused with an [ʌ] except UH / OO, is there. Since none of the variants the asker was apparently choosing from had a long uuu sound in it, I was just trying to point out the difference between (short) U and an [ʌ]

[WYSIWYG]

Taishukan's Genius English-Japanese:
Muslim /mʌ́zləm, múz-, mús- | múzlim, mʌ́z-, mús-/
Moslem /mάzləm/

[SirReal]

Heck, I don't understand transcription symbols myself :)
I prefer the "spelled pronunciation" system as mahavishnu's reference calls it.

Hope it's behind us. Have a good one :)

[Sjoe!]

Re. "with respect to phonics, i'm probably not the best person to ask at this stage"--why then post at all?

[SirReal]

Now there's an example of harassment for you, Faith.

[Sjoe!]

Nope. Just asking :)

[mahavishnu]

Thanks for your explanation, Faith*.
I agree with you about the way transcription (IPA) is treated in England and USA. And I believe it is one of the problems kids cannot read. They still teach IPA in Europe and Russia and it is easier for a teacher to control pronunciation using tha old technique. God forbid, they change their approach to phonics there too.
Check this out:

About Reading
Children learn to speak and walk by instinct. But did you know reading is different? Reading needs to be taught. Kids in the United States, though, aren't learning this fundamental skill. An astonishing 40 percent of American fourth graders can't read at the "basic" level.

And why is that happening? Simple: a student has no immediate aid at hand - a spelling dictionary with transcriptions, the one that the IPA-skilled students use. The Spelled Pronunciation is a big BS to me.

[Faith*]

Sjoe - i posted what i was confident with. This much phonics I do know and use. Mahavishnu's question referred to more advanced knowledge on delivering phonics teaching, which is something i'm not expert in at this stage.
SirReal - and you mate

[Sjoe!]

Just about what I thought. Confidence's fine, unless it is isn't one's gut feeling which almost always the case here..:)

As a matter of courtesy, do me a favour: use capitals in future. TIA, pal. Have a good weekend.

[Faith*]

Mahavishnu - yes poor literacy is a problem in the UK as well. And numeracy. And science. I have met 10-y.o. kids who can't add up one-figure numbers without counting on their fingers.
The problem is not resources, tho - not sure about american schools but UK schools are so well resourced - AND staffed - russian teachers would go green with envy. The problem is partly the massive socio-economic divisions in the community, i.e. I have kids in my school who never have breakfast, never went on a holiday, have no or very few possessions of their own, and their idea of a weekend treat is playing on the computer or going to mcdonalds. Obviously a middle-class kid whose parents read books to them and take them to the park on a sunday get a head-start.
but its not all as simple as that either. You see schools aren't there to teach kids and give them the best chances in life. They are there to satisfy the needs of the capitalist economy. Which means if everyone is given the knowledge and skills sufficient to go to university, who's going to lay bricks and sell sandwiches? So alhough teachers themselves aren't aware of this, they waste a lot of the resources and time on making sure that children DON'T learn the best they can. For instance, teaching staff spend hours and hours preparing props that they'd use once and chuck in the bin, prepare displays of children's work, yet the time spent on the actual work is really about and hour a day.
but that's a very long conversation and is something i'm really passionate about so lets not get carried away :-)

[Faith*]

Mahavishnu - BTW transcription would be useless for native speakers anyway as they already know how to pronounce. What they need to learn is how to match sound with spelling. Which for the English language as you know is not obvious at all. Actually teaching them a whole new alphabet of transcription symbols before they know how to use the Latin alphabet is only going to confuse them. Phonics is actually a very good teaching tool and is proven to give good results. I think it might be useful for teaching EFL students as well, especially the little kidlings who are only learning to write.
if you're really interested in phonics have a look at Letters and Sounds - it's THE policy document used in UK schools. You can download it chapter-by-chapter here (links on the top right of the page) http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/84969
also i don't know if you're familiar with Sparklebox - a very useful free online resource with lots and lots of printable props for all school subjects
www.sparklebox.co.uk If you teach English you might find some of them useful

Sjoe - get a life!

[Codeater]

So what did you say about the muslims here guys? :))

[mahavishnu]

Resources and staffing are superfluous in American schools, but the quality of teacher training is much to be desired. I've been told that most of the time future teachers learn how to entertain their students in class by mastering loads of props for their students activities, just to keep them occupied in class.
I taught in a secondary school in Scotland for a short time and what you say about some kids not having breakfast or not being given proper care and childhood is true.
It's true also that immigrants from Asia take their places in colleges and universities and leave it for most of the natives to lay bricks and repair cars.

[mahavishnu]

Codeater, leave them alone. They can do without us. :)

[Shumov]

фигасе!

Вера*, слово "проспать" некоторым образом тоже "the word you'd use only AFTER being late for something"... это инволюнтерный акт... типа как нечаянно наложить в штаны... (и в той же степени необратимый!)....

по свбжу: говорите как хотите... life's too short.

[Faith*]

Mahavishnu - is your prejudice directed against immigrants or the bricklayers? Surely true egalitarian education should be colour-blind :-)

[mahavishnu]

Faith*, thanks a lot. I'll try to use your resources.
It's true we are getting way off topic. I'd like to discuss some educational issues with you. If you want you can use my e-mail [e-mail].

[mahavishnu]

It is directed against the cruelty of the capitalist system! :) And bloddy globalismus, too.

[mahavishnu]

Sorry, bloody.

[VIadimir]

2Shumov:
Я не понимаю, что Вы хотели сказать своим комментарием? Faith* сказал, что в то время как "sleep in" может означать и "oversleep", и "lie in", он бы рекомендовал использовать "oversleep" в значении "проспать." (Хотя и то, и другое, как видно из m-w, может означать как "проспать", так и "нежиться в постели").

По поводу "говорите, как хотите"... А что Faith* непонятно написал, как произносится Muslim? /oo/ используется как в American heritage, так и в merriam, и, по крайней мере, из моего опыта, знаю, что данная транскрипция исп. очень широко.

Честно сказать, иногда мне непонятно, откуда берутся все эти выпады...

С уважением, Владимир.

[VIadimir]

Маленькое уточнение: "проспать" и "встать позже обычного/выспаться"... Первое всегда непроизвольно (в рус.) - тут Вы правы. Возможно, в этом заключалась Ваша претензия. But still...

[mahavishnu]

VIadimir, что значит m-w? - ...как видно из m-w, может означать как "проспать", так и "нежиться в постели"

[VIadimir]

m-w - это Merriam-Webster:)

[SirReal]

2 Shumov
Multitran has articles working both ways, so "sleep in" is one of several ways to translate "проспать" (although not the other way around).

[mahavishnu]

VIadimir, касательно Faith* сказал, - мне кажется, почему-то, что Faith* сказалА ...