A question to native speakers (gogolesque and others)

[Chucha]

Today I've read an article written by a native English speaker where she discusses the use of various greeting phrases for any occasions. In one of her examples she states the following:

"Your colleague tells a business associate: Мы от всей души поздравляем вас с десятилетием фирмы. And you translate: We congratulate you in a heartfelt way on the 10th year of your company's existence. Hmm -- that can't be right. In English we don't use "congratulate" like the Russian поздравлять. How about: Please accept our heartfelt congratulations on your company's 10th anniversary" (see http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2005/11/18/007.html)

So, my question is "Is it really so?" Are there any rules to differentiate between "congratulate on" and "congratulation on". Or are these words interchangeable in use? Seems like they are not.

Thank you

[Aiduza]

sorry, i'm not a native speaker, but:
congratulate on an achievement (eg winning an award)
otherwise use "greet"

there must be a thread in this forum somewhere dedicated to "поздравляю"

[Squirell]

Я не нейтив, но вопрос аскеру. Вы чувствуете разницу между этими русскими фразами:

"примите поздравления"

и

"мы поздравляем"?

[Tala]

Native speakers не всегда могут правильно подсказать особенно если это американцы у них очень много отклонений от правил ввиду того что не каждый citizen знает граматику, вот и чешут как понимают обратитесь лучше к британцам, у них классической английский и они еще не утратили своих навыков.

[Aiduza]

just in case:
season's greetings - это когда с праздником поздравляют
congratulations - когда, например, с победой в кубке по боулингу :)

[ms801]

2 Tala: It is true that a lot of Americans don't know their own grammar. But don't give up on our version of English. It does have rather strict grammar rules (unfortunately, unknown to many Americans), most of which are not that different from BrE. :-)

2 Chucha: I don't know if I would be as categorical as that article, but I agree that "we congratulate you on smth." is not used very often. To me, it is not necessarily a grammar issue, as much as it is a culture issue. In English we usually do not "warmly congratulate our friends on the occasion of ____"; we simply say "Happy Birthday" or "Merry Christmas".

Also, I understand that in Russian it is customary to use adverbs with your verbs (мы убедительно просим, мы горячо приветствуем, мы настоятельно советуем). Of course, in English, too, you sometimes want to emphasize you verb, but in most cases, if you translated those Russian sentences word-for-word, they would probably sound strange in English. When I hear that someone is "persuasively asking" me to do something, the question I have is "How is this persuasive asking different from simply asking?" How is "warmly welcoming someone" different from simply "welcoming someone"? Does that mean we "coldly welcome some people?

It would be interesting to hear comments from other native speakers on this.

[alk]

ms801 - а как насчет kindly ask you to do smth. Значит наверное и приветствовать можно нейтрально, а можно по-дружески.
http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?a=phr&a=ShowTranslations&s=friendly+greeting&L1=1&L2=2

[ms801]

2 alk: In my comment, I just wanted to say that Russian seems to be more tolerant toward wordy constructs than English. I did not mean to say that you should never use adverbs in your sentences. Also, in business correspondence, the general rule is to simplify your sentences as much as possible.

Again, not to say that there is anything wrong with "kindly ask," but in a business letter, I would say:

Please send the correct amount on the bill to.... instead of
We kindly ask you so send the correct amount....

[alk]

ms801 - а я бы наоборот, но это у нас так в компании принято.

['More]

Спор двух древнегреческих философов о прекрасном (с) Не помню чей ;)